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Learning from Experts: Being Relevant in an Emerging Market


Oscar Jofre  00:11

We can hear you all. Oops. Well, that’s all right. I mean, all right, everyone. Good afternoon. And hopefully, our colleague, Peter Daneyko, will be joining us here right away, I just want to wow, I can’t believe it’s, the week has gone by so quickly. It’s, it’s quite amazing. Each time we do this, that amount of energy, and of course, first, I want to just say thank you, to all the great speakers that came out and took time out of their day to provide their insights and education to provide better clarity for everyone. And as I said before, we want to make it as easy as possible for you to be able to reach them by simply visiting KoreSummit.io. Click on the speaker section on the main menu. And there you’ll be able to find all the speakers and be able to find our Bios. You can connect with them on LinkedIn. And then of course, we even provide you their email address, because we don’t want to stand in the way we want to make it. You know, again, you want to have to be engaged with them, we want to make sure that you have that ability to do so as quickly as possible. I know in markets, like ours right now everyone is trying to get things done today. So we’re going to recap really the whole week not in detail in any area. But obviously, we’ve invited Laura here who’s played a role in the real estate sector advocating for tokenization since I met her, and probably even before then. And then of course, our esteemed colleague, Peter, who had the pleasure of being in literally in every panel, that was not deliberately done.


Peter Daneyko  02:46

Oh, I think that was deliberately done. And that just leaves your calendar open for only KoreConX, or you’ll be invited to host a panel or participate rather quickly. But no, it’s been a pleasure.


Oscar Jofre  03:01

Yeah, it’s, it’s, uh, you know, we got to look back. And you got to think about everything that was captured today, from everyone’s perspective. That is, you learn the journey of raising capital using different regulations, what happens when you’re doing that process? And I think if I was going to summarize it for everybody really quickly, one or two words, you heard, it’s a gathering of a crowd of a community, you’re building a community of people, partners, you know, those who will be, you know, joining your community for what you’re working on. But nevertheless, everybody’s building a community, you cannot do this on your own. And I think that’s one of the biggest changes, I think I get often asked this question daily, Oscar, what makes one raise more successful than the other? And I just had this conversation yesterday with a colleague. And because there was an offering that didn’t succeed, and they said it, you can summarize it into one very simple word, when they try to do everything themselves, without working with others, or building that community. It’s very difficult to utilize these regulations to the fullest. And that, I think, just kind of says it all. And there have been a number of webinars throughout this week and by other partners we have, who speak of that, and hopefully, that will resonate, and people will get that building that community is the key. But let’s talk about real estate in where it’s going. So first, I’m going to go to you, Laura, because, you know, we’re gonna recap. So based on everything you’re gathering from this week, you’ve been on most of the panels and participating. Where do you think it Where do you think people are on a scale of let’s say, one to 10 when it comes to for sure they’re going into real estate, but it’s tokenization the 100% solution for them based on what you heard this week at all?


Laura Pamatian  04:53

Yeah, thank you for having me. Again. I really appreciate being here and you guys are just the leaders in education so  I’m just grateful to be part of this. I, you know, when it comes to tokenization, we’re constantly having this conversation all the time. And it’s, it’s still, we’re still at the very beginning, I think that there are there is a need. For some projects, it’s ideal, it would be, you know, beneficial. And maybe for other projects, it’s just not. And it really just comes down to the need of the project, you know, and talking, talking through it with the owner, the issuer, the company, what their goal is, what their long-term goal is what that looks like, and trying to set up for, you know, with the end in mind, right, go into this with the end in mind, and I don’t know, I mean, that’s, that’s kind of our perspective has been here.


Oscar Jofre  05:48

Okay. And Peter? Yeah, we’re monitoring No,


Peter Daneyko  05:51

Yeah, no, just to segue from what Laura just said, and what our earlier panelists had said. It’s really the, it starts with the education, but it’s really that issue or understanding what are my needs and my requirements, and then you dovetail into the regulations. And don’t get caught up in vernacular. And I think that’s probably, to me, what I’ve learned throughout the panel, and over the years is, the terms sometimes are misinterpreted, and they misrepresent or they’re just lack of education or lack of lack of definition to the masses, we hear this term tokenization It means so many different things in different sectors. So when it really comes down to it, if you know, if you start with trusted partners that have the expertise, an expert area in a specific discipline, and if you know what you’re planning to do when it comes to your real estate raise. Say, hey, I want to raise $100 million, here are my options. Maybe I’m using these exemptions. Maybe I’m going through VC, maybe I’m going through alternative financing channels, maybe I’m raising capital, using all three of them are a combination of different different options. But knowing you know, first ask your question, I want to raise capital, what’s my purpose? And then understand, what are all the pieces to my puzzle? Oscar, you mentioned, I need a community or I need to build a community. Do I want to go through that point, you got to be intellectually honest, as an entrepreneur, as a real estate developer, as whatever you’re going after in the space. To say am I willing first to understand all the key requirements such as marketing is a big lift? Am I willing to go through this exercise? Am I willing to realize that I probably need a smart team but around me, I need quarterbacks I need people that are going to say, Hey, I understand that piece of the puzzle? And I’m going to help you along that journey. But I keep coming back to one simple thing in this entire space. Know the regulations. If you know the regulations upfront, at least at the high level, there are amazing regulations, they may or may not fit with you. But don’t put a square peg in a round hole. Because two years down the road, you might handcuff yourself when we talk about where a Reg D fits, where does the Reg CF fit? Where does a Reg A fit, they all can, can coalesce but so plan upfront, I mean, at the end of the day, plan upfront, and talk to people to become educated. And you know, and then you think your fundraising journey is going to be a far greater opportunity to be successful. And it starts from there.


Oscar Jofre  08:36

That’s good. I mean, it’s, it is interesting. I don’t know if Laura will remember this, but I created a video just specially for you, if you remember, I sure do. And it’s funny, I’m using it more now than ever. So I want to thank you for that. Because it forced me you forced me at that time to bring something that I think people just needed to break it down. And I think for the audience here today, I’m just going to share something that was inspired by working with Laura because she’s been, you know, actively involved with our company. And as one of the main quarterbacks helping real estate sponsors and all that. And, you know, when we first got started, it was all about tokenization and I’m gonna come back to this, Peter because it will come back to the regulations. But what I found overall, because there’s so many so much chatter, and here’s the other part of the chatter, which we’ll get to is some people speak in general terms, and that means some people may read it from Canada thinking one thing the US and other UK and the other and not realize once you go down that rabbit hole that oh, wait a minute, I forgot to ask is this even legal in the country where a man but nevertheless, we’ll, we’ll get to that? So one of the things that I think it’s important for everyone, hopefully to the audience here is where you know, learn about tokenization. And learning about the real estate market is that it is one of the biggest asset classes in the world. In fact, one of our speakers and core partner Andrew Corn, from E5A integrated, wrote an article about the size of the market of real estate is $328 trillion. globally. I mean, this is, it is the major asset class that investors like. And up until now, the asset class has been limited to a certain amount. And so, when that asset class is so big, there are many, many different layers to it, there’s just not one layer for all and the narrative can get very confusing. If people don’t understand where the narrative that people are talking about it fits in. So in this chart here, I want you to understand tokenization works, it really does, it can, it is going to be a game changer in real estate, I’m gonna give you the first example, you know, property managing the the the actual property itself, which is, you know, it’s it’s managed by governments today, land titles, and all that I’m gonna give you this is not a joke, this is real life and happen no more than a month and a half ago, I hear in Canada, where a couple was, you know, they were holidaying somewhere in Europe for an extended period of time, while they were away. While they were away, their home was sold. It was sold. And interesting, you know, the and guess what everybody said this would have not happened if we were using Blockchain. And I agree 100% With that narrative 100% How they took tokenize that property had they put it on the public chain and all that this would have not happened? And for various reasons. So here we got a major piece to the puzzle to fix. But the only people that can fix it are the governments or you know, private sector? And what kind of chain could that be? Well, that can be a public chain, that could be any form of a chain. Why? Because it’s fitting near an environment that needs that has a larger audience, public, private, and so on. So you fix that the next piece is now you have that property, it’s generating income, and you’re an investor in it and you want to have better transparency to it. Can blockchain be a game changer 100%? So now you got the ownership component. And now you got the daily operations all on the blockchain. Let me just put it to you this way, if that ever gets completed, the problems we have in real estate today about the value and all of this and fudging the numbers is gone, we are going to a zero, you know, like t zero has their name, yeah, we’re going to a t zero your component of fraud or anything like that in real estate. So those are two that you can utilize any type of chain, whatever is available out there that it will fit because the requirements are not regulated in any way. So how do they propose to do all that with accounting systems? Fantastic game changer. Now, here’s where the wall comes in. And this is where it gets really challenging because people keep thinking that how you manage things and all of this, you can carry it through all the way until you gotta raise capital. And unfortunately, you can’t, because the narrative here has to begin with a very different position, you have to start with what are your capital requirements, and based on your capital requirements, which regulation best fits you and there, you know, again, and I’m only speaking for you S based companies. So I’m even going to give this component this answer in a way that is very clear to people. I am not here to provide this narrative for people out of Canada, the UK, or other countries. This is for U S based sponsors raising capital today. These are your choices. You can raise right  you got a limited capital you can raise you got a limit of 2000 shareholders and one great individual out there. If you can help me again, I forgot his name. Laura. Dave Hendricks, the CEO of Vertol. He said it best in one of his points out in the market. He said if you’re going to have only 2000 shareholders, why would you tokenize 2000 holders in the US? Correct? There is what are the merits behind it? Are their merits and managing from an administration? The answer’s yes. And then of course, we have the other follow-up regulations like reg s where you can sell to non-US citizens. And again, you still have the 2000 shareholder limit. So it’s the same regulation CF and Regulation A gives you the ability for unlimited, but the regulators have very strict rules, and regulations on how gets managed and who manages and how it’s sold. So when you understand that, when you understand that I think it fits into what you were saying, Peter, is that the regulations are the starting point. And once that begins, you can have a real meaningful discussion with an audience about what will work for them versus won’t. And then it makes lives easier for people like Laura, who are trying to help a sponsor who’s very eager about tokenization. And I want to use that because they’ll give me the market and she can begin the narrative with a starting point that has some, you know, great fluidity to it. Where are you a US-based company? Yes. Okay. This is a good starting point. Do you know what I mean? It’s, I find it that where we’ve come from, look, I’ve been doing this 14 years to where we are today. It’s where we’ve come from, to where we are now. It’s, it’s amazing. And just so you know, in 2012, when Barack Obama President Obama signed the jobs that can the year following. We had a crowdfunding conference, I will never forget this platform, went on stage and said, we just did $30,000. And everybody applauded. It was the greatest moment. I know, you’re all laughing. I know, I know. But then a CEO. None of us had ever heard of going on stage. And he’s doing his presentation. And he said, For the year 2013, we did 1.2 billion people’s jaws dropped at that moment. And we’re like, what on earth is he talking about? He was doing real estate. And real estate took off. And today we have over 30, 40, 50 different platforms, offering choices to investors. And today, you know, the former liquidity hasn’t emerged yet. But that’s the next topic. So it is an exciting topic. I think it’s it’s exciting. I think we’re getting better clarity. That’s my I’ve been listening to all the panels in the education, you know, building the community, but I think, I hope, I don’t know. I mean, I’d love to hear your feedback on this. Laura. And Peter, did you get better clarity? Do you think the clarity is coming out better to help out the truth? The entire sector?


Laura Pamatian 17:24

Yeah, I mean, I absolutely do. I mean, I think that you know, like you continue to say, and you’ve continued to say, and you’ve said from the beginning, when you and I first met, right, it all starts with regulation, and it starts with, you know, compliance and painting in the lines. And from there, then we can expand, right, then we can continue to broaden our reach and, and continue to educate on the topic, but it really, you know, I have this conversation a lot with, with, with people around the subject of, you know, what’s it going to take to mainstream? Well, we have this really incredible already put-in-place, infrastructure of regulation here in the US. So, you know, we can proceed. And I say this all the time, we this is the most practical application of blockchain in real estate is tokenizing real estate because there’s this already existing framework that we can, we can clearly see, we can clearly follow. And as long as we do that, we’re, you know, we’re going to play by the rules and, and we’ll stay compliant.


Peter Daneyko  18:32

And that’s the key is being compliant with that something there was an interesting takeaway on one of the panels today, they caught my attention, and it was one of the marketing firms. And the question that I always get, it’s, Hey, can you give me the aggregate numbers of how much capital is being raised under this regulation, that regulation? And here’s the challenge, there isn’t a central thing. So I’m gonna paint this picture. So there’s certain there are certain environments where I can look at a CF, and those are funding platforms. So funding platforms, based on the nature of themselves, they’re gonna say how much capital is raised aggregates and collectively on a funding platform. And that’s part of the fit FINRA guidance, etc. So I’m on a funding platform. So I can say, hey, the average raise is excellent, you know, $300,000 on a funding platform, and how many of the, you know the winners in the soft raises, and here’s a $5 million dollar raise. But companies that are raising capital on their own using these using tech now, and this is a bit of a commercial for Kore, I mean, in a sense, but the reality is if they’re controlling their own destiny, and we don’t know all the numbers due to different reasons, but when the marketing agency goes, I raised more money doing reg A’s in real estate than all the funding platform combined. That’s one. It tells you that it’s working They’re just not disclosing, hey, I raised $50 million in my RegA offering. Because it’s not like a data set. It’s kind of like any private company disclosing their books to everybody. And this just happens to be their primary with their capital raise. But that really perked up my ears. Because we see and we hear about, we hear about the challenges we hear about the soft raises, we’ve had some amazing raises come through our platform to the tune when people go, Wow, this company raised 5 million, 5 million 30 million 50 million and multiple raises. So those 100 million dollar raises using the exemptions are very real. But unless they publish it, nobody knows what the aggregates are. So just even hearing these anecdotes in the real estate space, and some raises that I’m seeing today because you know, if the issuer publishes, Hey, I’ve just raised $40 million. And it’s, and I’ve got 10 1000s small retail investors. It just says that it’s working, and it’s evolving. But I think it’s a bit of a whisper behind the scenes sometimes. You’re on mute Oscar,


Oscar Jofre  21:04

I know. I just got that. Sorry. I’m doing the Peter Daneyko, mute myself in the, you know on the question I have is. So one of the things that I was doing, because when Andrew sent that article, I, you know, the dollar amount was just staggering, right? And I know, some of our partners, companies, like in venue, are targeting the institutional side of real estate, which is a totally different gamma again, but you know, but even if you just take the general one that we’re dealing with, I went in, looked at all the real estate projects that are raising capital today, sponsors and stuff like that. And, and I know this is just a small grouping, I found a total of 150 plus platforms online, on average with 30, 40 deals at any given time. But what was surprising by that is that none of them were tokenized. So here’s the question I have for you, Laura, when you’re dealing with this sponsor, is this someone traditionally from the real estate sector that is now looking into it? Because this is the curiosity I’ve had for a while, does it kind of help the audience as well, or is it someone relatively new who sees the opportunity to the asset class and the technology? What do you see?


Laura Pamatian 22:21

Yeah, I mean, we’re really seeing the, from the real estate side, you know, the owners, the developers, the syndicators, you know, they’re hearing this term, tokenization, tokenizing. They’re thinking that this is, you know, some of them are thinking, Oh, well, tokenize, we’re going to sell these tokens, and we’re going to raise capital. And, somehow it’s tied to, you know, this whole new different source of investors, which, you know, that’s really not the case, right? We’re still targeting the real estate investor, right, we’re still targeting that. That demographic, but ours are the interests that we’re seeing coming up primarily from the real estate industry.


Oscar Jofre  23:05

That’s good, though. That’s encouraging. So that means the narrative has reached that audience. But you nailed your use, and you said something really interesting there. I think it’s important for everyone that the audience they’re going to be targeting is still the existing real estate investor. It’s not that crypto investor that people think that’s the one that’s coming into that investor does not see this, the way people are expecting this is not for them as Soto like, okay, that’s going backward. I want something that I’m what I’m doing today trading crypto, like flipping back and forth, for you know, in the private markets that that we’re not there yet. Maybe in time, that will happen. And Peter, I know you’re dealing with it working with Laura, I saw the same thing. I mean, I know we talk from time to time, but I mean, it’s there’s been no real estate transactions lately.


Peter Daneyko  24:00

Yeah, there’s a lot of there’s a lot going on in the real estate to dovetail in both your comments though, which I found that was interesting, you’re right. It’s not necessarily that crypto investor is looking for real estate, however, and I’m talking to the crypto investor that says, oh, I want to buy this asset, I’m offshore. I want to, let’s be honest, and a lot of these many investors simply want anonymity and want to hide their assets. I don’t, that’s just my take on it right, wrong, or indifferent. But what we are finding a little bit though, is this whole concept in a compliant way to do with the payment rails. Now. I, I have an asset that I’ve got Bitcoin for example. And I want to, I want to diversify my portfolio. I want to sell some bitcoin. There are mechanisms to convert your Bitcoin into Fiat in order to buy your digital security in real estate. Now, today with what’s been going on in the banking rails and FTX and everything also associated with that. Crypto to fiat transactions for securities offerings can be fully compliant. But the SEC might just look to have more scrutiny and more, you know, look harder at it, in spite of the fact that we’re still doing KYC ID verification, anti-money laundering. I simply make that comment to people or I see people with other asset classes looking at real estate as just simply diversifying their portfolio and some of those individuals will be those individuals that are in the crypto space. That’s all.


Oscar Jofre  25:38

You know, and that’s, and I think it is positive. Look, I, I think all the discussions we’re all having, I think it’s really important. I think, for the audience, hopefully, today, for all of you that are listening or watching the recording, there’s a there’s some really important terminology that I think will help you as well, when you’re reading certain materials, or you’re being invited to certain there is a big difference between an institutional component, a real estate versus noninstitutional. So as you probably heard in our audience, we’re talking about everyday Americans of the age of 18, who are investing in real estate of their, you know, with their own private company or themselves or their IRA, that, that fall under these regulations, institutions are governed different, they use different regulations, similar regulations. But it will seem that everything we discussed, it’s not needed. And that is correct because regulators treat them as big boys. They know what they’re doing. They have different rules they need to apply, you hear words like custodian versus transfer agent, and you hear things like custodial versus escrow. So it’s really important that you know, we try very hard to make sure that when we are talking about what we are doing is us one, number two, audience and understanding that there are other players, so I have no problems telling you, hey, go to the venue event, go watch, you want to learn about institutional real estate, you’re not going to find a better place to learn about it. I mean, that’s what institutions are doing. But please learn this part, how institutions manage and govern raise or capital and how you’re going to do it for your own entity is night and day, on another planet.


Peter Daneyko  27:40

You brought it, you brought up a really good point, and I think, I think foundationally and even to Laura’s comment earlier, start how much capital you’re trying to raise. And what’s the nature of the real estate offering that you’re trying to try to do? And if somebody says, hey, I want to raise half a billion dollars, I’m probably not using these regulations, guys to start, what’s my jumping off point, they may come into a piece of the puzzle. It’s a different narrative, you know. But if we take a look at it, and say, I want to use a RegA offering for up to $75 million dollars, and I might use this to help my cap stack when I’m going to the bank, because I need $20 million to assist me with phase one of a project, for example. Again, it starts with that planning. And, Laura, you’ve been, you’ve been teaching me all kinds of new things on real estate that over the last year that I have no clue about, I’m going Oh, is that how that works? What’s that terminology? So we’re all becoming educated every day about areas that we did know, hey, I’m, I’m a tech guy, hub and spoke I know, I know that. At the center is this and it needs to integrate with this, it might not know the details of the integration and connect all the dots. But when it comes to the rules and the regulations, and the possibilities, as a community, we’re learning all those things together. And, what’s going to happen tomorrow, I think is going to be you know, really, really exciting for everybody involved in the space.


Laura Pamatian 29:15

You know, to touch on one to touch real quick on one thing that you had said, you know, there are projects that we’re talking to that are billions of dollars, right, huge, huge projects, city developments, community developments, things like that. There are resort developments that are enormous that have funding and we’re still talking to them about implementing community involvement, right? We’re a social cause aspect of the development where they’re going to raise and they’re going to bring in some, some investors around the community, you know, maybe through a Reg A maybe through a CF $5 million, or whatever it is to involve the community.Right. Gained the support of the community, and how the community supports the success of the project. And we’re seeing social cause in those massive projects that don’t need, you know, like, like you guys are saying, well, the institutional funding, there are funded, you know, but, but there’s this really important aspect that we’re starting to realize is important. And that’s the community and involve them. You know.


Peter Daneyko  30:25

And I think that’s the real evolution with, you know, the whole concept again, from, you know, the job, you know, the concept of democratizing capital, it’s going to take many different flavors. And originally, when we think about, you know, crowdfunding in the back in the days of Kickstarter, when Kickstarter said, hey, help me build this, and I’m gonna give you whatever I build, and hopefully, I get a chance to build my new electronic gadget, right. And it wasn’t, it wasn’t from a security perspective, or an equity perspective, but it was, but it was an, you know, a fun, exciting time. And this makes me think of this as kind of like a full circle environment to say, okay, because that’s one thing we are seeing a lot of Laura is we’re seeing a lot of companies that are, are entrepreneurs that are saying, I’ve got a social impact, I want to do something in the real estate in my community. And they’re going to have a myriad of different funding options associated with that. And they want to include the community more and more. So yeah, I hear what you’re saying. Just got me thinking about some really exciting projects that, I mean, they’re very inspirational, as well as aspirational, from a potential investor perspective, but sometimes just a good thing to do. And you don’t want to lose money, and you want to make some money out of it. And you’re going to say, I’m bettering my community. So is that a benevolent investor, it’s probably a hybridization of being benevolent. And at the same time, you know, being financially astute to say, you know, what, and I’m going to be a benefactor and my, my, maybe my, my generationally, it’s going to be my family is going to be a benefactor. So there are so many different flavors in the real estate space, hey, there’s the pure REIT. Really simple to understand, if you guys execute, we’re all in and we’re going to keep putting more money in because I’m seeing my 810 20 30% return, well, maybe not that, but my, my 18% returns, and, and they paved the way for that next real estate entrepreneur that says, Hey, I see how they’re doing that over here. And I’ve got a skill set in my domain. And this is where education becomes so important.


Oscar Jofre  32:33

Well, this has been great, and Laura, it’s always a pleasure. And, again, it’s good that we all understand hopefully, the audience today, this is a journey. I’m very excited to say that. I’m now celebrating 14 years on this journey of online capital formation, which it started with a simple idea with a simple thought by one person. His name is David Weild, the fourth, the former vice chairman of NASDAQ, who made it all happen, and look what we created a brand new sector that is moving from a sector to using a different form of managing things. And it is fairly massive. I mean, so we are looking forward to that. And for everyone here today, share your thoughts, ideas, and questions, there’s no such thing as a crazy thing. We wouldn’t be here today if we didn’t keep pushing the envelope. But the one rule behind everything we do at KoreConX with all our core partners is the rule we have is compliant the right way, and the only way so until our next course Summit, which will be coming soon. There’ll be many this year in different areas. Look forward to having you again, I want to thank all our core partners who participated in these great webinars. Peter. Laura. Thank you both today for closing off this wonderful week. You guys did an amazing job providing this information next and everyone looks forward to seeing you again soon. And if you want to get more information, go to KoreSummit.io. You’ll be able to get links to the speakers as well. You can go visit our YouTube channel or our LinkedIn page and you will see all the recordings coming out soon. We’ll talk to you soon. Take care, everyone. Bye-bye pleasure.


Peter Daneyko  34:20

Enjoy your weekend.

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